August 8, 2009 at 12:22 am #2279
First of all, nobody better be betting their future on any big corporation (or the government for that matter). But you are wrong that the independents can’t make JennAir work and do it better than the big box. It has worked for Viking, SubZero, Miele and Thermador and it has worked well. Fisher & Paykel learned some tough lessons (hopefully) in joining up with Lowes. When it comes to a premium product with limited distribution every independent I know will line up behind the brand and support it, and I know a lot of independent dealers. Compare JennAir to Roper, RCA, Amana and Magic Chef? Just because something doesn’t work for Kia doesn’t mean it can’t work for Lincoln. Two different subjects. Remember, there is not a single succesful high end brand sold in a box store and there are reasons.August 8, 2009 at 12:48 am #2281
I guess if you consider Jenn-Air as a premium product. I dont! Any brand that sells free standing ranges is not really a premium product. More of a mass premium like Bosch, Electrolux, Profile if they think they can bring that line up to the level of a Viking, Wolf, or other premium brands good luck! Another great Whirlpool brand strategy. The days of Jenn-Air saying they are the #1 preferred cooking brand are over. That died when the downdraft cooktop stoped being cool. Jenn-Air is not high end and it never will be no matter how much lipstick you put on it.August 8, 2009 at 2:20 am #2282
"Any brand that sells free standing ranges is not really a premium product". I don’t want to argue with you but I could send you links to the websites of Wolf and Viking showing that they sell freestanding ranges. The only brand that would qualify as a "premium" brand according to your definition is Miele. There is definately no debate that JennAir will never come up to the line of Viking and Wolf, but I think it is safe to say that they will take the "other premium brands" lunch, hands down. Have you seen the product first hand Mr. Nerd? Because if you haven’t you should wait to express your opinion until you do see it. Their wall oven was rated by their competitors as the most exiting product at KBIS.August 8, 2009 at 4:46 am #2283
Hey smooth as silk see the picture of the Free Standing Range on the AJ Madison picture to the right? That is a Jenn-Air FREE STANDING Range. Looks very premium when sitting below an over the range microwave. Who showed up at KBIS to vote this year LG and GE. I have seen the product and if you think a menu driven control board is cool then this product will be awesome! Match that up with the innovative ductless downdraft cooktop and you have a low volume market exclusive. And the Independent dealers will get to be the channel to launch these dogs. Dont kid yourself they probably pitched it to Lowes, Depot, and Sears and all of them said have fun! Keep drinking that Whirlpool juice as I am sure they can deliver exactly what they say they can.August 8, 2009 at 1:29 pm #2285
Viking and Dacor both offer freestanding ranges with over the range microwaves. I guess that leaves the "premium" market to Wolf, Thermador and Monogram. They are qualified for the position, but I would never have thought a conversation could be had about premium appliances that would exclude Viking. I do like the menu driven control board, but a menu driven control board and a downdraft cooktop will never make a product line a success. But, if you add to it "affordable" integrated built in refrigrators with the reliablilty of KitchenAid, "affordable" pro ranges, wall ovens without the menu driven control for customers who don’t need that and a fit and finish that is more than adequate you have a product line that people are looking for today. Good looks, good performance and a "value" price point. I am curious what your go to brand is for high end products. Do you sell high end, or are you at a box store and are upset that suddenly JennAir is no longer on your menu? With an elitist attitude that a company that offers some products for the masses among their premium lines I would have a couple guesses but don’t want to jump to any conclusions.August 8, 2009 at 3:55 pm #2286ApplianceGuyParticipant
I have one word that your glorious BIG BOX cant even spell… SERVICE.
This is what will carry Jennair and future brands in the independants. Last time i checked your glorious BIG BOX were having problems with service. More and more independants are saying to customers " WE SERVICE WHAT WE SELL" hence dont ask us to fix your BIG BOX item call them.
Yes, there are stand alone repair centers but do you get personalized service or do they come when they can?
Good things take time, what i see is Jennair making a come back from the good old days. I would suggest the lets wait and see approch, as from what i can see so far is good attitude from Whirlpool while other manufactures are struggling.
Love the new MAYTAG wow… nice catch whirlpool…August 8, 2009 at 5:09 pm #2289Appliance StallionParticipantI believe it is a sound policy to roll out a middle of the road product even if you are high end. The high end has shrunk to say the least.Some of these companies need to increase revenue. So for Dacor to roll out other levels of products is good. Viking ? They have gotten by for years with less than a top performing product and have sold their "look". I never considered them to have top engineering talent. Hard to recruit that kind of talent there. Monogram, heck GE does not even produce that line themselves and it is a small blip on their financials. Thermador is diluting their high end . The high end players remain the same ,just a diversified offering now.November 7, 2009 at 2:37 am #2807
Well I hate to say I told you so but I told you so. Independent Only brand for what 30 days!!!! I dont think the floor displays have even hit the market yet and they already high fiving each other in Benton Harbor over the Sears floor display order. As I said before keep drinking the Whirlpool juice.November 7, 2009 at 7:59 pm #2808
Yea, and as you said before, JennAir is not a premium product. Any more words of wisdom? We were actually informed of the Sears deal being a possibility months ago. I for one do separate them slightly from the general "big box" companies. After all, they do have a service department, not a great one, but a service department. I’ll drink the Whirlpool coolaid, you can keep bashing Whirlpool. Just remember you are bashing a company that employs around 30,000 Americans.November 7, 2009 at 11:08 pm #2809The AdvisorKeymaster
Jennair has long offered products several pegs beneath the brand’s position in the market. Because of its long history, people equated Jennair with luxury or premium appliances long after that was no longer true. If you define premium as Thermador/Dacor/Sub-Zero/Viking, they had not been competing at that level.
The new Jennair product line looks like they’ve made an attempt to dump most of the lower end misfits, and to raise the quality of their game.November 8, 2009 at 2:00 am #2810Bermuda BobParticipant
… when someone asked for "downdraft" they were asking for a Jenn-Aire … it was long time "given" that they were the cutting edge of the marketplace … no other appliance in their collection enjoyed such distinction !!!
While I wait the opportunity to view the line personally, I’ve only seen the web site and their new convertible "Duct Free Ventilation" system … I have just two (2) observations:
1. The CookTop looks very much like a Wolf (without the DownDraft, of course) from the burner configuration (which I do not like) to the output statistics …
2. I have my wonders about a "ductless" system without knowing how the volume of intake is dissipated, to how condensation due to gravity is handled …
… and with a little bit of luck, I’ll get to see something before K-Biz (if it’s worth going to)… but if not, then I might have to go undercover to Sears !!!November 9, 2009 at 4:14 pm #2811cincyMember
Good point on the condensation.
I’m also wondering if the user will like the 425 cfm blowing on their feet. I beleive the exhaust will go through the cabinet toe kick.
We shall see….November 9, 2009 at 4:26 pm #2812The AdvisorKeymaster
This is not the first non-ducted (recirculating) downdraft. Gaggenau or Siemens-brand was the first that we are aware of.
Why would the condensation issue be any more of a problem than what already happens with non-ducted updrafts, another worthless ventilation configuration?
To the extent that people enjoy the benefits of a ventilation system that does not work sucking up, they certainly will enjoy a ventilation system that does not work sucking down. The thing about consumers is, it’s all about the looks, and these things should look great.
Non-ducted hoods promise to remove smell, but they do not remove, CO, CO2, other cooking gasses and heat. Do they remove moisture? None have ever been designed to do so in the past, but if there is condensation, than the system could delay the release of moisture, which might have some benefit.November 9, 2009 at 10:03 pm #2813Bermuda BobParticipant
I think we all agree that non-ducted hoods are like a band aid … they suck the steam away from the cooktop and shoot it out the top … woe be the cook who is tall enough for it to ruin their hairdo !!!
OTR non-ducted hood have much less condensation because heat rises and stays warmer than when it sinks … so the steam of an OTR has more time to evaporate, while the downdraft does not, causing more condensation …
I remember the Gaggeneau unit … took up a monstrous amount of under-the-cooktop space I like (when I design kitchens) for pots and pans … it also takes a very good installer to make the field adjustments for that downdraft … I remember it looking like more than any other downdraft I ever worked with …
Time will tell I guess !!!
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