Has K-Biz Priced Themselves into Oblivion ???

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    Hey Stone … your comparison with the annual auto show makes a lot of sense, BUT … from a manufacturer’s perspective there aare several issues you need to take into consideration:

    1. Most of the major players (the ones with big booths) rely upon BOTH the Kitchen & Bath Indutry AND the New Construction Industry to meet their annual sales budgets. So they have to decide whether or not to support KBIS or IBS or both.

    2. Both shows are incredibly expensive. Not just for booths, but for prototypes, product transportation, expenses, set-up & tear-down (usually with union workers), etc, etc.

    3. Which show do you pick for your product introductions? They occur within a couple of months from each other and many customers attend both events. Do you show all your neat stuff in the first show and have a ("been there – done that") booth in the second show? Or do you wait for the second show to strut your stuff (and miss the folks that only attend show # 1).

    4. Coordinating the timing of new product introductions between manufacturers will probably happen sometime after Hell freezes over. They really don’t want to share that kind ofinformation with their competitors.

    5. I agree with you about the need for relationship building. But eventually, if manufacturers keep consolidating and dealers keep bankrupting, relationship building could probably be done in a 10 x 10 tent.

    Bermuda Bob

    Hi Cohiba … I agree the Car Show type of "introduction Event" is something no manufacturer wants to have to adhere to since they would be forced to compete with each other … and competition, which being good for the consumer, is expensive to the manufacturers … plus they are not guaranteed of a "captive audience" …

    That’s why APPLE does not go to CES, because they cannot be assured of the "limelight" as they want it !!!

    Your points #1 thru #4 are insightful and demonstrative of why, if the economy continues the way it is – and there are no indicators to reflect otherwise – a jointure of K-Biz & IBS might be necessary … but only if our Industry has a clear and representative voice via a seat @ the table, where we can disseminate the needs of the Appliance Industry and not be overrun by Bathroom people & Designers …

    For the record, IBS already has a step in the right direction for me, they are going to Vegas in 2011 …

    Does anyone know how they did this year ???

    I’ve not been to IBS in ages, but I did go to the Remodeling Show the last time it was in Vegas and it was not anything we would want to co-mingle with because it was all tools, siding, decks, trucks, etc.

    I have been to ISFA, the CounterTop Show, a ### of times and including them as a natural association with kitchens would be a good addition … we’d have to deal with their fabrication tools, but that could be in a separate pavilion …

    Essentially we need a show which is focused on our Industry so as the manufacturers feel they get are getting their moneys worth !!!



    I have been reading the feedback on AA relative to the KBIS event and felt compelled to respond in attempt to set the record straight. We understand that trade shows in general can be a significant expense, both in time and money. We also acknowledge that we are on the back end of the worst recession in over a generation. This has all been further amplified by the fact that most anything attached to the residential real estate market has been particularly impacted over the last 24-36 months. So, what are we (KBIS) doing about this reality?

    The average rates at our Headquarter and Preferred Hotels have remained flat over our 2008 average rates. Some of the rates in this particular string are incorrect. Actual rates are as follows:

    * Hilton Chicago is $229

    * InterContinental is $234

    A complete listing of rates for all 30 hotel properties in Chicago can be found at http://events.onpeak.com/kbs10.

    Please note that our 2010 hotels are offering a variety of complimentary value-adds including but not limited to: free in-room internet, food and beverage discounts, double reward points, discounted parking and complimentary health club access.

    We continue to renegotiate rates with all of the hotel properties within our housing block. Thus far these efforts have yielded on average a 17% drop in room rates for 2010. These discussions are ongoing and we hope to find additional cost savings in advance of the show.

    The KBIS rates are also not inflated – they are all discounted:

      1. Our rate at Palmer House Hilton is $209; the hotel’s rack rate is $239.
      2. Our rate at Hilton Chicago is $229; the hotel’s rack rate is $269.
      3. Our rate with InterContinental is $234; the hotel’s rack rate is $251.

    Attendee Registration:
    We have significantly lowered the cost of the conference program and extended the early bird registration deadline dates – all of which will save you money.

    Exhibitor Savings:
    Exhibitors will receive a 25% discount off published rates for all electrical services – including labor. This is courtesy of KBIS.

    Our 2010 general service contractor rates were only increased by 3% increase over KBIS 2008 published rates. This is a significant savings as the industry standard is a 7% increase year over year – that would be a 14% line item price increase from 2008 to 2010. However, exhibitors will see a total cost savings of 11% in 2010.

    KBIS 2010 exhibit space rates are flat with 2009. Exhibitors that signed up for the 2010 event during pre-sales or on shows site in Atlanta and contacted at least the same size space as 2009 also received an additional 10% discount on your exhibit booth space.

    As always, KBIS will have complimentary transportation to and from the show for all hotels within our block.

    There is also no shortage of opinions out there regarding the health of the 2010 event. I would like to set the record straight there as well. The overall size of the show is certainly down versus 2008, which is a byproduct of the economy. This is not specific to KBIS and is consistent across the board in with other industry trade shows. However, the size of the event is consistent in size and scope with 2009. Yes, several exhibitors have pulled out of the show, but we will still host over 700 exhibitors in 2010. Attendance is also tracking 41% ahead of 2009, which will ultimately translate to over 35,000 in attendance this April. Like our industry, we are very much in a recovery mode, but I tend to see brighter days ahead and I hope you do as well.

    It is very clear that are also a variety of opinions out there about what we should and should not do to improve KBIS. While some of your suggestions can be easily implemented (if they have not already), others are simply not realistic. However, it is important to note that we are listening and your opinion does matter. In fact, anyone can feel free to contact me directly with your thoughts on this subject. I can be reached directly at brian.pagel@nielsen.com or at 770-291-5438.

    I hope to see you at the show.

    Kind Regards,

    Brian Pagel,

    Group Vice President,



    Brian … This is primarily an "appliance" site. Most of the people reading these postings are either in or involved with the appliance industry. You may think your show is "consistent in size and scope with 2009", but as far as appliances are concerned, it is not worth attending. Among the scores of appliance manufacturers who have pulled out are most of the heavy-weights in our (appliance) industry. Don’t focus on who is showing, focus instead on who is not ! Whirlpool (showing off-site with Jenn Air in the booth), Sub Zero – Wolf, Thermador, Bosch, Gaggenau, Miele, Dacor, Marvel, U-Line, VAH, LG, and Electrolux to name a few. Turn out the lights – the parties over.

    Bermuda Bob

    Greetings, Mr. Pagel … and thank you for entering the discussion !!!

    I believe that the majority of posters here would agree with you that much associated with the diminished housing market affects us all, however, looking further, I believe, it is that there is little of no financing available to folks either for new or remodeling projects … Thus our industry, and those represented by K-Biz, are particularly affected …

    There is no dearth of opinions about K-Biz, so to specifically react to your post, I’d like to do so seriatim:


    The contention in my Forum Post was that K-Biz was not doing anything positive for the attendee, and I’m sure you’ll agree that the attendee is why we have shows … to show our wares and expose them to the wonders of our industry !!! All of the rates I quoted were from the K-Biz web site that day … apparently they have changed, and that’s a good thing !!!

    My next point is that one cannot expect an attendee to come to a show where the least expensive room is, according to your present web page, $149 @ the Ambassador, East, but no other hotel comes close to that …

    Your own Preferred Hotels are all over $200 !!! Do you really think you make the show "attractive" when the hotel rooms are so inflated ??? If K-Biz can get the Ambassador, East, a 4 Diamond Hotel, to reduce their rates to $149 a night, why can’t K-Biz do that for all the other hotels ???

    Hotel perks aside, $200 is a very unreasonable price to ask people to pay to come to a show where MOST of the major appliance manufacturers are not showing up !!!


    These "savings" mean nothing to the average attendee, who is interested in viewing and evaluating PRODUCTS … those "savings" are only of interest to the major appliance manufacturers, most of whom have withdrawn …


    The transportation you noted as "within our block" means for only the thirty (30) hotels listed on your site, but you must agree that anyone staying elsewhere – either because (A) they cannot get into the Ambassador, East, or (B) wish to pay less for accommodations, or (C) wish to protect their hotel membership points – will not have transportation provided as you didin years gone by …

    You see, Mr. Pagel, I’ve come to the show for years, and now, when things are tough and everyone’s budget is tight, is when you need to think of extending simple necessities, like transportation, in order to preserve attendees !!!


    You sat that … "There is also no shortage of opinions out there regarding the health of the 2010 event" … and I agree with you wholeheartedly, so I have to ask … Have you considered using the situation in Las Vegas as a bargaining chip with Chicago ???

    Las Vegas is presently doing anything and everything to attract business, and, as long as you do not make the same mistake as CES and hold your show on a weekend, they are particularly interested in your business !!! There are reports to this effect just about daily on CNBC and other financial portals asserting as much …

    I would think that $69 rooms Sunday thru Thursday and the inexpensive tram in Vegas does not compare to a weekend in Chicago … and the reason is simple – an empty Convention Centre is an unhappy and pliable Convention Centre !!!

    Additionally, I have to ask … Have you re-negotiated next year’s show, using the present conditions to negotiate a long term contract to host future shows in a venue as eager to do so as Las Vegas ???


    I’m curious about your contention that this year’s show will be attended by 41% more attendees than last year … 41% of last year would mean just short of 41,000 attendees, as opposed to the 35,000 you quote … Wouldn’t 35,000 be something in the area of a 20% increase over 2009 ???

    Further to those statistics, have you taken into consideration those people, like associates of companies which were originally registered as coming and now are not ???

    Then there are those who automatically took advantage of the free registration but are no longer coming because of the withdrawal of the major appliance manufacturers …


    I’d like to make not just a suggestion, but a heartfelt recommendation … Why not form an Advisory Committee … and include a few members of the Appliance Industry – not necessarily manufacturers, but those who are involved with customers day-in-and-day-out – essentially those who have the most unique perspective in our Industry ??? I say this because OUR Industry is not necessarily included in the many other vendors you refer to in the "over 700 exhibitors …" you indicate will participate in K-Biz – 2010 …

    I, for one, would be very interested in contributing to such a committee … and I’m sure of some others here as well !!!

    Another consideration along the lines of addressing diminished participation would be to hold K-Biz every-other-year, when it certainly would be less of a luxury and more of a necessity …

    All of us would love to continue to discuss this with you here @ AA, so I’ll thank you, in advance, for your reply and ideas !!!



    Thank you again for the feedback. Below are a few quick answers to your questions.

    1. There are a variety of hotel options at a variety of price points. The preferred properties you are referring to are just two of the thirty properties we have within the block. As mentioned, we continue to work with each property to ensure that we are offering the most competitive rates possible, as noted by the decreased rates on our site.

    2. We will continue to offer transportation service to all of our show hotels. While I love your suggestions, it is simply not possible to offer service throughout the city. It is also important to note that we are working to drive the cost to participate down, not up. Offering such an extensive service, while a nice thought, would ultimately force us to have to increase, not decrease prices.

    3. We are back in Las Vegas in 2011 and it will be a part of our long term rotation. I am glad to hear your positive feedback about this city as we also believe it is a good location for the show!

    4. Please let me clarify on the attendance as I may not have been clear. Our numbers are tracking 41% ahead of 2009 at this same period (8 weeks out). We are projecting a total attendance of 35,000 based on a conservative increase versus 2009. This estimate takes into account our average and projected show up rate as not all pre-registered attendees make the show. If we have a higher than expected show up rate, we could easily meet the 40,000 plus in attendance, but I prefer to manage the expectation and stick with our projection of 35,000.

    5. We do have an advisory board for KBIS. Many of the major appliance manufacturers serve or have served in the past. We also host a variety of focus groups and have attendee and exhibitor driven research projects. Do you think an appliance specific advisory board is needed? Would you care to help us to put one together?

    Again, thanks for your thoughts and feedback. We appreciate your perspective and are working better the event every day. Please keep the suggestions coming.

    Brian Pagel

    Bermuda Bob

    Mr. Pagel …

    As our British friends like to say, I was “dashed” by your condescending attitude toward my comments … you originally twisted the seventeen (17) some odd posts in my Forum Topic and then you continued to do so in your response …l again address your responses seriatim:

    1. I made the observation that there were no hotels under the $149 Ambassador East hotel, which, for an average attendee is still exorbitant … You seem to think that money grows on trees and that $200 plus a night is the norm !!! Well, maybe for you or those on expense accounts, but not for attendees who are out-of-pocket or out-of-the-till … Where do those people stay, Mr. Pagel ??? Why are you not interested in them ???

    2. If you had to make a decision between those who could afford to stay within your thirty (30) hotels and those who could not, who would you want to make getting to the show more attractive ??? By discounting anyone who HAS to stay outside the you seem to be trying to penalize them for being of lesser show budgets … that smacks of elitism and you really should reconsider such an attitude !!!

    3. Anyone who knows me knows well that I believe that Las Vegas is the quintessential place for a trade show, as does CES and other trade-shows who have made them long term homes for their annual shows … You conveniently did not answer my questions, and I did not mention a rotation !!! Your sidestepping my questions smacks of K-Biz not being in tune with their audience, and not caring either !!! I’ll hope for some more answers to the queries I made …

    4. So if you were "tracking" a 41% increase, why didn’t you say so ??? Do you really, truly, and honestly believe that you will realize an increase in attendee participation this year without support from the major appliance manufacturers ??? So, you put out 41,000 but you "conservatively" expect 35,000 … isn’t that a type of propaganda ??? It makes whatever numbers you release questionable, don’t you think ??? I sure do !!!

    5. What good is an Advisory Counsel if no one know about it ??? Mr. Pagel, you and I had a dialogue last year … you ad my contact information … I didn’t hear about Focus Groups or Research Groups from you this past year !!! Are you sure you realy want input when it is not flattering ???

    An Advisory Committee provides honest, candid, and often critical commentaries about what is wrong and what can be done to correct it … it compliments what is deserving and criticizes what is wrong !!! If you indeed held these events with major appliance manufacturers, the "sales job" obviously wasn’t very convincing !!!

    I’m particularly disturbed by your question about an "Appliance Specific" advisory is necessary … to quote "Cohiba" in another reply to your post, "This is primarily an "Appliance Site." Most of the people reading these postings are either in or involved with the Appliance Industry." Of course, Sir, we think we ought to be heard … and our opinions taken with much weight because we are not hinges, knobs, and knockers … we are not about knock-off-third-world products, and we are not tubs, toggles, and trestles …

    We are one of the most major decisions a normal homeowner will make in their lives … and decisions they make day-in-and-day-out … well, before those hinges, knobs, and knockers !!!

    If you were truly interested in forming the type of Advisory Committee I speak of, you would have contacted "Advisor" a long time ago, but alas you have not …

    The Advisor

    Press release below submitted on behalf of Nielsen Expositions by Wagstaff Worldwide (PR).
    Bob, though I understood that there was a release with information similar to the one below, this one has obviously been re-released, or updated specifically for you.

    Large number of new attendees, architectural and design firms register for Chicago show

    ATLANTA, GA (March 1, 2010) –With the Kitchen & Bath Industry Show (KBIS) just around the corner and set to embark on McCormick Place in Chicago on April 16-18, 2010, attendee figures are showing a significant 40% increase over last year’s numbers during the same time period to date. Show producer Nielsen Expositions is now anticipating nearly 35,000 attendees at the show this year, which will include the industry’s top dealers, designers, builders, remodelers, retailers, and other professionals directly involved in the design and remodel of residential kitchens and bathrooms.

    The numbers are pretty staggering at this point as our research shows that 67% of the attendees who are registered for KBIS 2010 did not participate last year,” said Brian Pagel, vice president of the Kitchen and Bath Group at Nielsen Expositions. “This has surpassed our expectations and has generated a lot of early buzz and excitement surrounding the show in Chicago this year.”

    A significant growth is particularly seen in the number of architectural firms that have signed up to attend the show to date, with a 20% increase compared to 2009 figures including many major architectural offices that have projects in the pipeline and will be looking for specific products, ideas and inspiration during the show. Design firms are also flexing solid numbers to date with a 15% increase overall compared to 2009 figures which includes many prominent designers and design firm executives. Lastly, Nielsen anticipates nearly a 10% increase in the number of plumbing wholesalers and distributors at KBIS this year based on the current projection figures

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