Cartoon: Meanwhile in Juarez...........
Submitted by advisor on Thu, 07/15/2010 - 2:42pm.
Running a factory has its challenges. Many factories in the
copyright ApplianceAdvisor.com 2010
Transplant manufacturers in Mexico are in endless grip of fear, as they attempt to build an appliance industry in the most dangerous cities in the world. Executives in finished goods and parts suppliers all located in Mexico, informed ApplianceAdvisor.com, that though business continues, it continues in a constant state of vigilance and stress. Ex-pats as a rule commute from homes in the United States. All avoid night travel, early morning travel, do not schedule flights which depart Mexican airports early or return after darkness. VIP visitor are escorted to and from the US border. None of our contacts confirmed any acts of thefts of shipments, extortion, kidnapping or murder among manufacturers, though reference was made to Korean executives kidnapped some years ago. By and large, the violence is targeted at building drug market share
Many of America's appliances are manufactured in an environment only somewhat more peaceful than Kandahar.
Links:
Mexico President Felipe Calderon and the Super-Maquiladora
US State Dept Travel Warning
key terms: Electrolux, Frigidaire, Juarez, appliances, refrigerator, ranges, dishwashers, Mexico, Cartoon, drug violence, NAFTA
Illegals
I noticed someone brought up taxes in one of the previous post. Isn't that the big issue, other than the drugs and violence, that illegals aren't paying taxes, but reaping the benefits?Instead of a flat tax on income, why not just add a flat sales tax to items purchased? This way, if you buy it, you pay tax on it. The more you buy, the more tax you pay. No more Income tax to fill out at the end of the year, no W-2's, no refunds, etc.Put all the IRS workers to work monitoring the sales tax revenue of retail establishments, so no jobs lost.Maybe even make supermarket food exempt, that way there is no burden put on the poor or underprivelaged.In fact eliminate food stamps too and setup gov't run food distribution warehouses where you would go down, show your National ID, to get the necessities instead of going to the local walmart. Maybe eating Gov't cheese, powdered eggs, etc instead of steaks and ribeyes for a year will encourage some to go out and look for a job.
Some Correction
Working in California here is the skinny on how most illegals work. They will get some other person's information and use that name. Consequently that is why many have nicknames.The info they get is legal. They pay taxes but never file the return. Takes the IRS time to track the culprit down. Then the cycle starts again. Taxes are paid and guess what ? They never collect social security. I have heard through government employees that process helps keep social security somewhat flush. This does happen , I have seen it happen. No urban legend.Most illegals want a job and they surely don't eat steak, I see what most of these type of workers eat. It is easy to say there are jobs. Today you would be hard pressed to have full employment. I am not sure the government wants to fix this problem. An analogy. When you see a demonstration of 500 people it looks enormous. Same with this , I do not believe the problem is as big as we make it. Should everyone be legal ? Absolutely. Most companies have begun e-verification through Homeland Security. I am sure there is a way around that too.
Absolutely ...
... as you say, "Should everyone be legal ? ... Absolutely." ... that seems to beg for a national identification card, without which you should/can be severed from any/all governmental services, etc. !!!
Taxes and Services
Stallion ... I hate to agree with you, it's much more fun to rile you up a bit. However, I do agree on most of the points you make. Illegals aren't eating steak and, while the unemployment numbers are at horribly high historical rates, we have to consider that even at "full employment" we'll always have 5% unemployment, because some folks just don't want to work. So 10% unemployment is really more like 5% unemployment which means, of course that 95% of the people that want jobs have them. Of course, this analogy really gets screwed up when states like ours have a high percentage of employment tied up in the public sector, with layoffs happening to people who wear badges and teach kids.
I also agree illegals rarely, if ever, file for refunds on taxes withheld. However, I do question whether the contribution they make through withholding comes close to covering the cost they absorb through education, health & welfare.
Taxes & Services Two
I must be doing something wrong if we agree ! What they explained to me in school was that full employment included 4% unemployed due to transient movements , people temporarily leaving the work place , etc. As for how much dollars they take up in school...it appears that they just make the classroom size bigger which equals a poorer education. As for the other issues , those who come from third world countries don't quite live like we do and some of those folks have told me living poor in the US is a better alternative than living in Mexico or Central America.Either way people need to be legal. Like I said , I am not sure that is what government wants for many reasons. Stay well Cohiba.
Look before we leap
Before leaping into a "consumption tax" let's consider all of the possible consequnces:
1. A "consumption tax" has already been proposed in Congress with a first year rate estimated at 23% of spending, which of course would equal a 29.8% mark up of goods sold (mark up vs margin).
2. The fastest growing demographic in our population is the "senior citizen". Many of these people are now living on fixed incomes that are significantly less than their "earned" incomes during their working years. Taxing their spending now instead of their incomes would redistribute a greater percentage of the tax burdens to these seniors. AARP would burn in effigy any Congressman foolish enough to vote fo this bill.
3. Italy, for example, currently has a 25% consumption tax. However, they have had to add other taxes to their coffers because the consumption tax is routinely "avoided". Contrary to Bob's concern about laying off IRS workers, the current IRS work force would not nearly provide enough manpower to catch those who would find ways to beat the system.
4. Alexander Hamilton argued in favor of a consumption tax because he felt it to be self-regulating and therefore not likely to become excessive. (People could only spend so much and the higher the tax the less they could spend, so taxes would have to be contained). But, Hamilton didn't have the benefit of learning from the Italian example.
Trust me, if the gov't doesn't get enough money from the "consumption tax" to satisfy the gov't spending needs, then the gov't will simply create a new tax, or it will continue to run deficit budgets. I'm not sure which is worse.
How right you are ...
... so I gather that the solution is to find a way to reign-in our politicians and in doing so (theoretically) reign-in spending ...
I maintain that taxing the people to death stymies the economy and that the only way to grow the economy is to
1. Reduce taxes on manufacturers ... they are only going to build it into their product cost to the consumer ...
2. Issue tax rebates for purchases of products completely manufactured in the USA to incentivize the domestic economy ...
3. Flatten taxes to consumers so they can invest in their economy by purchasing more goods and services ...
4. Disallow Unions of any kind from supporting candidates, lobbyists, and political action committees with the dues of their members !!!
It's time to take back our economy from the pie-in-the-sky ideologues like those we currently have occupying places of influence in our government !!!
This is a bit reactionary
There will be parades in the Hamptons if you get this through, a big ticker tape parade. The rich who spend very little of what they earn will live in the best country on earth provided to them by the taxes of the middle class and poor, who spend most of their earnings. That would be fantastic for the rich. None of these people will be investing in production. Reagan's kindergarten theories of economics proved that. They will be happy.
Your theories in controlling union speech really makes no sense. Organizations not supported by the government can support issues and candidates which support organizational goals. Unions in anycase are hardly the king makers they once were. You want to make government about the issues and not the money, you'll need ambitions far surpassing the unions. Start with public financing of elections, shorten the elections, and control how money can be spent.
Your "taxing people to death" complaint has no serious basis in fact. I know....shocking. Just take a look at the tax rate during period's of America's greatest growth. You should see what the corporate and individual tax rate is in Germany, or China. High taxes spent better.
Adjusting Taxation ...
TK,
What you are describing is currently in use in other countries ... the programme eliminates Income Tax in favour of what is commonly referred to as a "Consumption Tax" ... you pay tax on what you consume ...
I've always liked this idea, however, in the places where this programme is in effect, the "Consumption Tax" begins @ around 25% of "normal and customary" items and as high as 125% on high-end products ...
If that works for you, then I'd order a lot of pink paper for all those pink slips to IRS people !!!
Pink Slips
I don't think any IRS people would lose their jobs. They would simply be Retail Tax collectors instead. The local accountant might have to find something else to do to make up for lost tax season money.If I could keep all my income, I wouldn't mind a 25% tax. At least I would have the option to not buy it and they couldn't put me in jail for not buying it.
It certainly sounds ...
... like an inviting way to live, but in every country where I've seen it, government figures out some other way of gouging their own citizens ... and isn't that what Washington is doing to all of us ???
Important Issues
Advisor: The issue of immigration is the single most important issue facing Americans today. I say Americans because when the news says we are sending 50,000 American troops to fight a war I think it is reasonable to assume those are United States troops. I don't like the North American analogy much.Most people in the world have the assumption that America is a free country and given that we are devoid of any organization or laws. We all know that as a democracy we are a country based on laws and freedoms done responsibly. The issue of race only appears when we want to have a standard of law apply to this situation where someone of a skin tone darker than some Americans feels targeted and then it is racism. I have heard that the Tea Party has been accused of racism. Anyone who condemns Obama is racist. Come on. Racism comes in all colors and we have been able to make improvements on that over the past one hundred years. The NAACP does not represent anything but the black movement,are they racist ? As a nation of laws when my relatives came here for a better life they had rules to follow, so should everyone else.If I have to carry an ID card that is no problem. Yes , it is another freedom obscured. However the ones causing that are the ones who don't think any laws apply to them. This country as great as it is will fall from within because of obscure apologists who want to baby and appease people. Remember Europe tried that with Hitler. How did that work out ?
The News from Juarez
Vancouver Sun: Mexican Government supports one of the drug cartels
Australian Broadcasting Company: Car Bombings in Juarez Today.
Factory Tours have been Suspended
If you were one of the 90 sales people that were ready to go see how washers, dryers and refrigerators are assembled in Mexico it has been Suspended until further notice. However the Sunsetter factory tour in Tucson is still a go hope to see you there. Remember sunscreen and passport.
Confirmed Untrue
Could there have been 90 Salespeople scheduled to see the factory? Yes....in fact happens all the time up here.
Could the tour have been suspended? Yes. Juarez is nasty.
Did either of these things actually happen? Appliance Freak confirmed off-line that neither actually occured.
Laws
Do you have something against people having to prove they live in the US legally ? I lived in Phoenix for one year. The safety of citizens is a hot topic in addition to the hot weather.I guess if an illegal shoots someone he should get a pass for that too since we may be picking on him. I suggest you, if a citizen go to another country and see what happens when you are caught without your papers. Heck and we are not looking to move anyplace else generally.
Border control
Stallion .... Occasionally we do agree. Controlling our own borders is a hotbed issue that must be resolved. It is not about race or ethnicity, it is about safety and security of our citizens. Drug cartels creating havoc on our southern borders and terrorists crossing our northern borders give states like Arizona ample justification for demading that the Feds either enforce border control and illegal immigration or get out of the way and let the states do it.
Convoluted thinking ...
This is what happens when an Administration is simply wrong minded ... think of it ... the Federal Government is suing the Sate of Arizona for wanting to protect itself from people who are wrongfully here !!! Best of all, the Arizona law is a virtual mirror image of the wording of the Federal law ...
There MUST come a time when we get a handle on this scourge on our country ... Yes, the words on the Statue of Liberty encourage people to come here, but it does so as an invitation to become legal citizens !!!
You guys are missing the point
But then, you are all a bunch of white guys, so rarely is the point aimed in your direction.
There are two problems:
The first problem in the concept is not the enforcement of the immigration laws and the expulsion of people here illegally, (though admittedly that may be a problem with those on the fringe). The problem is that American citizens will be required to document their citizenship wherever they go and at any time....even when not breaking the law. Does it take much of an imagination to see that the enforcement of the law will fall predominately upon those who seem hispanic? Should American citizens be required to carry documents proving their citizenship? Be forced to produce documentation of their citizenship when walking down the street? None of you people see that the solution suggested in Arizona includes American citizens like you, but browner, being in the very un-American legal position of "guilty until proved innocent"? A situation not unlike being stopped for DWB (driving while black).
The second problem is that though it may make you feel good, it won't work in reducing the problem. When picking tomatoes in the sun for 6 months is the dream job to write home about, you've got to figure that this will not stop them from coming.
The goal is to have 12 million people leave on their own. In matters of systematic crime, the answer requires a systematic approach. Not so much stopping one person in the street, but changing how salaries are paid, how banks document account holders, how expenses are deducted by business, and making the payment in cash for work or services much more regulated. Regulating how people are paid for services and work, and how those payments are deducted by business may eliminate most of the problem while including every American citizen in the solution.
I have opened my umbrella. Start the pelting.
For your umbrella
Advisor.... while I freely admit to being one of the white guys you mentioned, I do brown up pretty good during the summer months thanks to a Cherokee ancestor. That said, it is unfortunately true that since our brown friends represent the largest population of illegal aliens, they will be singled out for any "show me your papers" effort to enforce immigration laws. However, a national identity card (not a social secrity card) could help spread enforcement among brown and white alike.
If a (difficult to forge) identity card was required for job applications, bank accounts, credit cards, travel, social services, etc. it would be difficult for anyone (brown or white) to live here illegally. Enforcement could be focused entirely on the backs of those folks providing such services with heavy penalties for those that wink and nod.
I know someone will argue that immigration enforcement will spell the end of fresh lettuce and clean hotel linens. But, I'll take my chances believing that Americans will find a way to put tomatoes on the grocery shelf witout putting illegal aliens in the field.
Stimulating Certain Industries ...
Hey Mate ... You might have just found the best reason for an expansion of the hydroponic development of fruits and veggies ... and a use for all that desert one flies over when going to Vegas !!!
I agree with you on the National Identity card ... Hell, we already issue Social Security ###'s to newborns and I believe that before I'm dead, we'll see them finding a way to indelibly imprint your very own bar code on that same baby's bum ...
"Pelting" Points ...
#1. To my knowledge every state in the Union should have a statue which requires everyone to " ... give a good account of themselves ..." ... so having to produce reliable identification is no big deal and an extension of already established law ...
#2. The IRS has been trying to eliminate the "underground economy" for as long as it has been in existence ... the reason why they can't/won't is that politicians derive a substantive amount of revenue this way as it skirts documentation ... applying the same idea to industries which support these politicians will mean it will fall on deaf ears !!!
If you want to simplify everything, eliminate currency in favour of a universal debit/credit card and require a flat tax based on what is earned ... easy as bread and butter !!!
"Show me your papers"
"Show me your papers", is a phrase best used in police states......or worse. Not a lawyer, but it would seem that a person would have needed to commit a crime before the authorities could require presentation of identification. Of course if being "brown" is probable cause.......The use of an identity card would be fine, except it will not be allowed either by the right or the left. Too much power in government hands. My suggestion would keep the power out of the government in private hands, the banks.
It's no Secret ...
... that the Democrats have courted the "brown" and central American folks (I've lost track of what's "PC" !!!) who find their way here ... Dems are also the leading proponents of making Puerto Rico the next state, but the Puerto Ricans don't want it because they enjoy being "de-facto" Americans without paying taxes ...
As I said, in any state where one if pulled over for a MV violation (which requires Probable Cause) or any other social setting, if that person cannot provide proper identification, then he/she is guilty of a " ... failure to give a good account of oneself ..." and thereby giving law enforcement Probably Cause to check anyone in their company ...
You come under the ruling of this law right this very minute, so why is it such a big thing to make it the same for everyone, regardless of colour, ethnicity, ability to speak English, or any other defining aspect ???
It's not, so why all the bug-bub ??? Simply put, it's a liberal knee-jerk response purposely made to elicit the response of an illogical fear of your "... show me your papers ..."
No Secret Here
The Hispanic vote is much more naturally a Republican vote, than a Democratic, based on their deep Catholic conservatism. If the Republicans lost it, it's because they chucked it over the side in their rush to nail down the Xenophobe vote. Puerto Ricans are not de-facto Americans. They are Americans........and they pay federal tax. If you go there, you too will be paying tax, just like your fellow Americans next door.You've forced me to read a little on the Arizona law. My read is that you may be more right than I. That they cannot stop you on the street only for your immigration status. That said, it is telling that law enforement is not enamored by the law, as it is likely to get in the way of their primary responsibilities of public safety. As it is not systematic, it is not going to succeed in its main goal, though it may succeed in increasing immigrant "churn". This isn't a problem if you're looking for full law enforcement employment, but it sounds more and more like the un-successful "drug war" which targets people not systems.
looks like the 90 have arrived
Sales are down jokes are up, I am in favor of the law, Its bad enough when we talk about some of these brands we now have to say built in North America.Enjoy the Awning tour .... Passport is optional ....